KKR Real Estate Finance Trust (KREF) disclosed a mixed financial performance for the first quarter of 2024, with a GAAP net loss of $8.7 million, or negative $0.13 per share. However, distributable earnings stood at $26.7 million, or $0.39 per share. The company's book value per share declined by 2% quarter-over-quarter to $15.18, with a notable increase in the CECL allowance to $3.54 per share. Despite the loss, KREF remains optimistic about its future lending activities and the health of its life science and multifamily sectors.
Key Takeaways
- KKR Real Estate Finance Trust (KREF) reported a GAAP net loss of $8.7 million for Q1 2024.
- Distributable earnings were $26.7 million, with a book value per share of $15.18.
- The CECL allowance increased to $3.54 per share.
- KREF paid a quarterly cash dividend of $0.25 per common share.
- The company has a robust pipeline of over $20 billion and expects to resume lending in the upcoming quarters.
- KREF anticipates repayments to surpass fundings in 2024, with over $1 billion projected in repayments.
- The debt-to-equity ratio was reported at 2.1, with liquidity of over $600 million.
Company Outlook
- KREF plans to resume lending in the next few quarters with a strong pipeline of deals.
- The company expects the office sector to remain challenging, while life science and multifamily sectors show promise.
- Repayments are projected to exceed fundings in 2024, enhancing the company's liquidity position.
Bearish Highlights
- The GAAP net loss for the quarter reflects ongoing challenges in the market.
- Book value per share experienced a 2% decline from the previous quarter.
- The CECL allowance increase indicates a higher provision for credit losses.
Bullish Highlights
- KREF has a strong liquidity position and diversified financing sources.
- The company is well-capitalized with a debt-to-equity ratio of 2.1.
- KREF feels positive about its high-quality life science portfolio and leasing outlook.
Misses
- Despite distributable earnings, the GAAP net loss highlights the need for cautious asset management and lending resumption strategies.
Q&A Highlights
- KREF is actively managing its asset portfolio and expects increased repayments to contribute to liquidity.
- The company is not planning to increase dividends in the near term.
- KREF has restructured the Minneapolis office loan and is in modification discussions for the Boston office property.
- Lenders are more willing to work with borrowers on extension scenarios in the current interest rate environment.
- Entry cap rates for Class A multifamily properties are around 5%, with industrial properties trading in the high 5% to low 6% range.
In conclusion, KKR Real Estate Finance Trust (KREF) is navigating a complex market with a strategic approach to its real estate portfolio. While facing a GAAP net loss, the trust's distributable earnings and strong pipeline of deals offer a glimpse into its potential for recovery and growth in the real estate finance sector.
InvestingPro Insights
KKR Real Estate Finance Trust (KREF) has faced a challenging market, as reflected in its recent financial performance. Despite this, there are several indicators that suggest potential for the company's recovery and growth. Here are some key insights based on real-time data from InvestingPro:
InvestingPro Data:
- Market Cap (Adjusted): 668.19M USD
- Revenue Growth (Quarterly) for Q1 2024: 245.04%
- Dividend Yield as of the latest data: 10.22%
InvestingPro Tips:
KREF is expected to see net income growth this year, which aligns with the company's optimistic view on its future lending activities. Additionally, KREF pays a significant dividend to shareholders, with a high yield that may be attractive to income-focused investors. Notably, KREF's liquid assets exceed its short-term obligations, providing financial flexibility in the near term. It's important to note that while the company has not been profitable over the last twelve months, analysts predict that KREF will return to profitability this year.
For investors considering KREF, these insights can be particularly valuable. The substantial dividend yield, coupled with the expectation of net income growth and a solid liquidity position, may offer a compelling case for the stock. For more detailed analysis and additional InvestingPro Tips, be sure to check out https://www.investing.com/pro/KREF. There are currently 5 more tips available on InvestingPro that could provide further guidance for your investment decisions.
Remember, if you're looking to access the full range of InvestingPro insights, use coupon code PRONEWS24 to get an additional 10% off a yearly or biyearly Pro and Pro+ subscription. This exclusive offer can help you stay ahead with advanced metrics and expert analysis as you navigate the real estate finance market.
Full transcript - KKR Real Estate Finance Trust Inc (KREF) Q1 2024:
Operator: Good morning, and welcome to the KKR Real Estate Finance Trust Inc. First Quarter 2024 Results Conference Call. All participants will be in listen-only mode. [Operator Instructions] Please note, this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Jack Switala. Please go ahead.
Jack Switala: Great. Thanks, operator, and welcome to the KKR Real Estate Finance Trust earnings call for the first quarter of 2024. As the operator mentioned, this is Jack Switala. Today, I'm joined on the call by our CEO, Matt Salem; our President and COO, Patrick Mattson; and our CFO, Kendra Decious. I'd like to remind everyone that we will refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures on the call, which are reconciled to GAAP figures in our earnings release and in the supplementary presentation, both of which are available on the Investor Relations portion of our website. This call will also contain certain forward-looking statements, which do not guarantee future events or performance. Please refer to our most recently filed 10-Q for cautionary factors related to these statements. Before I turn the call over to Matt, I'll provide a brief recap of our results. For the first quarter of 2024, we reported a GAAP net loss of $8.7 million or negative $0.13 per share. Distributable earnings this quarter were $26.7 million or $0.39 per share. Book value per share as of March 31, 2024 was $15.18, a decline of approximately 2% quarter-over-quarter. Our CECL allowance increased to $3.54 per share from $3.06 per share last quarter. In mid-April, we paid a cash dividend of $0.25 per common share with respect to the first quarter. With that, I'd now like to turn the call over to Matt.
Matt Salem: Thank you, Jack. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. I'd like to begin with a brief update on the state of the market. Despite the latest higher-than-expected CPI print, resulting in muted expectations for near-term interest rate cuts, the commercial real estate market continues to heal with increased transaction volume, price transparency and liquidity across most property types. Given narrowing views around interest rates and sustained economic growth, combined with valuation stability, we are beginning to see encouraging green shoots. The lending environment is competitive as a significant amount of capital availability outweighs suppressed transaction volumes. Over the last 24 months, insurance companies, foreign banks and government agencies have been able to meet the needs of the market. In sympathy with broader macro strength, spreads are tightening with recent lending on stabilized real estate in the mid-100s. With US bank still largely on the sidelines and the increased market activity, our expectation is for this supply demand imbalance to normalize and potentially reverse, creating an attractive opportunity for KREF to fill this void as we resume lending in the next few quarters. But our team has not been dormant. Given KKR's large and diversified CRE credit platform, we have been actively originating loans throughout this cycle. Our bank, insurance and debt funds pool of capital across the US and Europe are actively investing with a budget of approximately $10 billion this year. Our own pipeline demonstrates this return of transaction volumes with an existing pipeline of deals in review or in closing of approximately $20 billion, totaling over 100 opportunities. This compares favorably to last year's weekly average pipeline of $14 billion. While we expect CRE lending across the US banking activity to remain muted, we are seeing a notable shift in preference from direct mortgage origination to loan-on-loan facilities to institutions like ourselves. This change is driven by more efficient capital treatment, less intense resources and relative safety. In terms of property type fundamentals, the office sector remains challenged, though we are beginning to see more liquidity now than six months ago. In KREF's portfolio, we continue to feel we have identified the potential office issues within our watch list and do not anticipate further negative ratings migration to the watch list from the office sector. In terms of life science, we remain positive on the sector, given the long-term demand from innovations in science and technology. Though the market has seen a decrease in funding, we downgraded one additional life science loan to our watch list this quarter as a result of challenges posed by the short-term leasing slowdown. Multifamily fundamentals have slowed, given new supply dynamics, but liquidity in the sector is very high. Market research suggests a 50% decline in multifamily construction starts in 2024 versus 2022, leading many investors to look past the elevated rate environment and current rent pressures. Multifamily represents 43% of our portfolio and has performed well with weighted average rent increases of 3.4% year-over-year. Now, turning to KREF's earnings results for the first quarter of 2024. KREF comfortably covered our $0.25 per share dividend this quarter with distributable earnings of $0.39 per share. As we stated last quarter, we set our dividend at a level that we can cover with distributable earnings ex losses with our performing loan portfolio under a number of different scenarios. Our expectation is that in the near term, DE ex losses will continue to be significantly higher than our dividend. With the help of KKR Capital Markets, KREF continues to maintain high levels of liquidity with $620 million of availability at quarter-end, including $107 million of cash on hand and $450 million of undrawn corporate revolver capacity. We have diversified financing sources across a number of facilities totaling $8.7 billion, with $2.9 billion of undrawn capacity. 78% of our secured financing is completely non-mark-to-market, with the remaining balance mark-to-credit only. KREF has no corporate debt or final facility maturities until 2026. Composition of KREF's financing structure remains a true differentiator. This quarter, we received $336 million in loan repayments, including full repayments of $173 million on our previously 4-rated D.C. office loan and $151 million on our previously 4-rated New York City condo loan. We funded $103 million for loans closed in previous years for a net reduction of $232 million. Repayments have now exceeded fundings in four of the last five quarters. And we expect this to continue with aggregated projected repayments throughout 2024 of over $1 billion. KREF has an externally managed vehicle benefits from access to resources, relationships and expertise of KKR's global real estate platform that manages nearly $70 billion of assets across both debt and equity. Our dedicated team of approximately 150 real estate professionals has a strong reputation as a full-service capital solutions provider. This integration provides us with an optimal toolkit to implement a variety of strategies and maximize value across our portfolio. In addition, K-Star, our affiliated rated special servicer with a team of more than 45 professionals and over $45 billion of special servicing rights, representing over 5,000 properties provides us with extensive access to an expert team with sizable real-time market information. We will continue to proactively and transparently navigate this challenged real estate market. As we mentioned last quarter, we will patiently optimize our REO portfolio, and as we sell those assets, we believe we can reinvest the capital to generate an additional $0.12 per share in distributable earnings per quarter. And with that, I'll turn the call over to Patrick.
Patrick Mattson: Thank you, Matt. Good morning, everyone. I'll begin with updates to our CECL allowance and watch list. CECL reserves increased $33 million this quarter, driven primarily by collateral dependent loan reserves, resulting in an aggregate $246 million of CECL. This was largely related to a further downgrade of our $37.5 million retained mezzanine loan backed by an office property located in Boston. As we mentioned last quarter, KREF is currently in modification discussions, and we anticipate subordination of a portion of our mezzanine loan to new equity contribution from the existing sponsor. Regarding our risk rated 5 Seattle life sciences loan and Mountain View office loan, we are working with those respective sponsors to take ownership through a deed in lieu foreclosure in Q2 as we explore the path of joint venture partners and continue to evaluate the go-forward business plans. Further details on these loans as well as our existing REO portfolio is reflected on Page 13 of our supplemental. We experienced no realized losses in the first quarter of 2024. However, during the second quarter, as we anticipate taking title to the Mountain View in Seattle assets, we expect a significant portion of our collateral dependent loan reserve to flow through distributable earnings. Coupled with the anticipated modification on our Boston office loan, we project realized losses to total approximately $140 million in Q2 or approximately $2 per share, in line with our existing reserves across these three assets. For our Philadelphia assets that became REO last quarter, we have an agreement in place to sell two of the four buildings with a closing date tracking for Q2. We're comfortable holding the remaining office building and parking garage longer term. However, we may have an opportunity to sell those properties as well, and we'll update everyone on the next call. KREF is well-capitalized with a debt-to-equity ratio of 2.1 with look-through leverage ratio of 4.1 as of Q1, slightly lower than year-end. We expect deleveraging to continue through the remainder of 2024 as repayments are anticipated to outpace future funding obligations. KREF's weighted average risk rating on the portfolio remains 3.2, and 85% of our portfolio is risk rated 3 or better. KREF has built a fortified liability structure that is diversified across two CRE CLOs, a number of matched-term lending agreements and asset-specific financing structures as well as our corporate revolver. KREF's substantial liquidity position of over $600 million at quarter-end, including $450 million of undrawn revolver capacity, is a key component of our ability to navigate this dynamic credit and interest rate environment. Coupled with our best-in-class financing, over 75% of which is fully non-mark-to-market, and our long-standing relationships with our financing partners and borrowers, KREF has the tools at its disposal to withstand the challenges of today's market environment. Thank you for joining us today. Now, we're happy to take your questions.
Operator: We will now begin our question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] And the first question will come from Rick Shane from JPMorgan. Please go ahead.
Rick Shane: Hey, thanks for taking my question this morning. So, when we look at the reserve rate at the end of the first quarter and we take the implied -- or the charge-offs that you guided to in the second quarter, it would imply a reserve rate ex those expected losses of about 140 basis points to 145 basis points. Does that seem appropriate? It's obviously well below what your reserve rate has been the last year or two, but it is also reflecting the realized loss on specifically reserved assets. So, how should we think about reserve rate as you start to realize some of the bigger losses that you've held?
Patrick Mattson: Rick, good morning. It's Patrick. Thanks for that question. So, I think in terms of that number, it's around 150 basis points, 160 basis points on the balance. So, I think you're directionally correct there. I think what it is really reflective of is, as we work through some of these more challenged assets on the watch list, we're going to get down to a pool where we think we've got relatively clean composition. And so, I don't view that number as sort of high or low. It feels probably appropriate right now. I think longer term, that could even feel a little bit high. But in this market, that's probably the right level.
Rick Shane: Yeah. Look, you know that I love metaphors and I think that in some ways, the reserve is a piggy bank that you've been depositing in for many quarters. And I guess what you're saying is that we should expect -- it is now time to crack open the piggy bank and perhaps make some withdrawals?
Patrick Mattson: I think directionally that's what's happening when you think about the guidance that we're giving on the second quarter.
Rick Shane: Patrick, I couldn't get you to buy into my piggy bank metaphor.
Patrick Mattson: It wasn't bad, Rick. It wasn't bad.
Rick Shane: Thanks, guys.
Operator: And our next question will be from Stephen Laws from Raymond James. Please go ahead.
Stephen Laws: Hi, good morning. First, I want to start, I guess, follow up on the reserve question. And I think you guys appreciate the color on the 5-rated loans. As you think about the 4-rated loans, three of which are multifamily. How do you think about the next three to six months for those assets? What are the key things you're watching that may move them back to a 3 versus moving to a 5? And when you take a step back and look at the collateral values versus your attachment point with the loans, do you feel there's still good coverage there from a collateral standpoint? Or what is the risk that if they move to 5, it will drive incremental-specific or asset-specific reserves?
Matt Salem: Hey, Stephen, this is Matt. I could jump in on that one. I appreciate you joining the call and asking the question. I think on the 4 loans, I guess I would break it down a little bit as you're suggesting in terms of just by property type. I think we still believe that the multifamily segment, while it's going to have noise, especially if you think about just a little bit higher rate environment for a little bit longer, it could put more pressure on some of the sponsors that don't have as much liquidity as others, but we don't feel like there is a material loss content in that component of the portfolio. I think we stated that in previous earnings calls. I think we still feel like that today. So, while certainly, there's the ability to transition a multifamily property from a 3 to a 4 or 4 to 5 over time, really looking through to what's the value of that asset versus our basis, I think we still feel pretty good about the overall positioning there. When you start to think about some of the other assets like life science or other things, there's a little bit more jump risk, I think, in terms of just, "Okay, what happens as those transition through?" Of course, it's not rated to 5. These loans are rated 5 for reason. They're performing, paying current debt, et cetera. But at that moment, where you started to get into difficulty or monetary default, then those reserves can certainly increase.
Stephen Laws: Appreciate the comments there. And then, I wanted to follow up on your comments around originations. You guys have really been focused on asset management for the past year. And you mentioned that maybe the supply/demand balance is shifting possibly more in your favor over the next coming quarters. What is it that you're kind of looking forward before shifting back on offense? Is it getting these three resolutions in the second quarter behind you? Is it something some segment of your existing portfolio that you want to monitor performance before returning to offense? Or is it really the returns available that seem pretty tight on stabilized assets that you don't think is an attractive time to put money to work? Maybe a little more clarity on what you're looking for to resume new originations?
Matt Salem: Yes, Stephen, I'm happy to jump in. I would say I think it's more internal to KREF, right, what we're looking at on within our own portfolio than a comment on the market environment because as I mentioned, through our various pools of capital away from KREF, like we're actively lending. We like the market there. We just think it's going to get better over time. So, what are we looking for within KREF? I would say a couple of things. Number one, just consistent repayments. And so, we're starting to see that. Obviously, you want velocity in your portfolio before you start lending new capital. And I think that velocity is coming back. And certainly, four of the five last quarters, we've had repayments offset future fundings. We think we'll get $1 billion of repayment this year. So, that -- certainly that's starting to move in the kind of green zone in terms of how we're looking at it. The second thing would just be, okay, portfolio migration in terms of like what are we seeing from a credit perspective, that feels like it's slowing down now. This isn't a market I particularly want to predict the future. But certainly, when we look at the velocity of where things are going from 3s to 4s or 4s to 5s, that wave of office feels like we've dealt with a lot of that already. And there's other things that have come in recently, but it feels like it's slowing down. So I think just some stability around that and the portfolio migration. And then finally, just leverage ratios, right? Just to make sure we get back to where we historically have operated, which has been in more of that high 3s context versus very low 4s where we are today, and that's migrating in the right way. And certainly, when we look through our projections, we expect that to continue to go in the right direction. So, those are probably the three things we're watching most closely. From a liquidity perspective, we have lots of liquidity. So, certainly we can go out and make another loan or two. But I think we really want to see those other areas firm up before we move in that direction.
Stephen Laws: Great. Appreciate the comments this morning. Thank you.
Operator: And the next question will be from Sarah Barcomb from BTIG. Please go ahead.
Sarah Barcomb: Hi, good morning, everyone. So, my first question is related to the life science portfolio. Could you talk about the leasing outlook for assets that are still 3-rated that may be close to delivering the projects, but potentially remain vacant? Could you give us any insight into leasing for life science in your portfolio in general? Thank you.
Matt Salem: Hi, Sarah. It's Matt. Yeah, happy to answer that. As you identified, we've got a couple -- two life science loans on the watch list today. When you look at the loans or the properties outside of those two that have been identified, about 70% of the remaining exposure there is new build, as you're suggesting. So by definition, very, very high-quality trophy in some cases, and these are extremely well-located assets in the best life science markets in the country. So, I think we feel very good about where those stand currently. Some are kind of lease ready and some are still in the process of finishing construction and waiting for that moment to really have an opportunity to attract a tenant in. But I think what we've seen is that the velocity in its early days and -- but certainly with the LOIs and to some extent, leases that are getting signed at these assets, there's a little bit more velocity in these newer-build purpose-built assets and new construction than we've seen in maybe some of the conversion plays.
Sarah Barcomb: Okay. Great. And then my follow-up question is related to the REO portfolio. Could you walk us through expectations for potential CapEx spend on these assets? And maybe some commentary on your expectations for foreclosures going forward beyond your expected REO disclosures?
Matt Salem: I think from a -- it's Matt again. Let me start on the CapEx side. I would say we're still finalizing these business plans. And as we go, REO, we'll develop those. I guess, when we think about it in a couple of ways, number one, we were perfectly committed to spending CapEx to positioning these assets in absolutely the best way possible to attract really high-quality tenants and to stabilize the property. So that is our mindset that we will spend money to create value. I'd say number two, in most cases, from just a pure CapEx perspective, we don't think there's large, large outlays. I think a lot of the capital is going to come from good news from tenant improvement and leasing commissions as we sign tenants there. And from -- I guess, the two ways you could think about it is like from an earnings perspective and from a liquidity perspective, certainly from a liquidity perspective, not worried about it at all. Again, it's not a big number. We have ample liquidity to implement any strategy we wanted to. And from an earnings perspective, a lot of the CapEx, by definition, is going to get capitalized into the assets. So, it's not going to come through earnings. And we'll have a little bit of just expenses that will certainly impact earnings. And when we thought about resetting the dividend, clearly, that was kind of factored into some of the scenario analysis as we think about that. So, hopefully, that helps address a little bit of your CapEx questions. And then, from an REO perspective or foreclosure perspective, I think we've identified everything at this point in time in terms of where -- what's in the watch list that were kind of proceeding down that path. And of course, we'll keep that transparency on a quarterly basis, and if that change, we can update it. But there's nothing kind of like left right now that we're -- that we haven't identified that we plan to go to title on.
Sarah Barcomb: Great. Thank you.
Operator: The next question is from Steve Delaney with JMP Securities. Please go ahead.
Steve Delaney: Good morning, everyone. Can you hear me?
Matt Salem: Good morning. Yeah, we hear you well, Steve.
Steve Delaney: Okay. Great. Thanks. I'm on the cell phone this morning. Listen, first, just really applaud the forward disclosure about that the losses -- the projected REO and the realized losses in the second quarter, it makes -- I think it will make -- certainly make their life easier and it will yours and I think shareholders as well just to kind of not have the uncertainty about 2Q. So, I'm looking at Page 11 now, given that perspective, and should we think about this after those projected REOs that as far as 5 ratings, as you see things right now, that you're basically left with the Minne and Boston office properties. Is that the way to look at it sort of post the REO actions?
Matt Salem: That's right. Yes. I mean, obviously, as in the other changes, that's the way to think about it. And keep in mind that Minneapolis, we have modified that loan, that's gone through restructuring. And then, as Patrick mentioned in his remarks, the Boston office is currently -- under modification discussions currently, and we tried to reflect that in the reserves for this quarter.
Steve Delaney: Got it. And with Boston, a little unusual there because the $38 million -- the retained mezz. Is the $38 million your exposure at KREF and the difference between the total $188 million is with other KKR entities, is that the way to view that?
Matt Salem: There's a little bit of nuance there, I would say. The $38 million is -- $37.5 million, I think to be correct, but is KREF's total exposure. The debt...
Steve Delaney: That's where I was going, to find out how much KREF is exposed.
Matt Salem: That's right. So, that's our maximum exposure of $37.5 million. The mortgage debt senior to us, which comprises -- the two together comprise the $188 million is held by a third party.
Steve Delaney: And obviously, you're subordinate of course there, so you need to focus on that when you look at the property value for sure. So, not to get ahead of things, obviously, you're aggressively trying to get through these problems and to workouts. I thought it was pretty bold, but a strong move by the Board to make the meaningful cut in the dividend ahead of these resolutions. And obviously, $0.39 in this quarter for reported DE will be offset by the big number next quarter. But it does appear, by the time we get into early 2025 that your run rate DE, I would expect -- perhaps all of us have to update our models, would be in excess of your $0.25 current dividend. Sort of, I guess, psychologically at the Board level, what does the Board and what does management want to see in the portfolio before it would be reasonable to reconsider the dividend for a possible increase?
Matt Salem: Thanks, Steve. It's Matt, again. I can jump in again. I guess a couple of things. First of all, unfortunately, we just reduced the dividend. I don't think we're...
Steve Delaney: Of course.
Matt Salem: ...considering increasing it in the near term here.
Steve Delaney: No.
Matt Salem: And I think most of the uplift is generally going to come from the recycling of REO assets into performing loans or earning assets effectively, right? And so, when we start to think about the -- and that's why we keep referencing back to the $0.12 a share, where, okay, we're going to take title. We're going to be patient. We're going to lease these. I think that's the best thing for our shareholders, the best thing for our balance sheet over time, and not paying out a higher short-term dividend. But if we optimize those outcomes and we repatriate that capital, then we'll be able to, we think, increase earnings by at least kind of $0.12 a share. So that's really what we're focused on is that optimization and implementation of that REO strategy. We'll see what the world looks like in six months, nine months, maybe other things that are -- have a material impact on that. Obviously, where's the interest environment will be a big driver, given we're floating rate portfolio. But that's really I'd say what we're mostly focused on is what is the path and the timeline to REO assets.
Steve Delaney: Got it. Well, congrats on the resolutions, and I appreciate the color. Thank you.
Matt Salem: Thank you, Steve.
Operator: And the next question is from Jade Rahmani with KBW. Please go ahead.
Jade Rahmani: Thank you very much. Just stepping away from the transitional CRE space and looking more broadly, can you give any sense as to what's happening to CRE loans at maturity? What are you seeing from most lenders in terms of loans that come up for maturity, the percentage that get refinanced, get modified, get extended? How would you characterize it from your broader vantage point?
Matt Salem: Hi, Jade. This is Matt. Thank you for the question. I would say, first of all, I don't have exact numbers at my fingertips in terms of like what -- how much is repaying versus getting extended. Certainly, we're in an environment now where there's a lot more extensions than normal payoffs. And I think lenders are more than willing to work with borrowers on an extension scenario. They need a little bit more time to get into the interest rate environment that's more accepting, I guess, of property value. So -- and I think just -- everyone looks at the maturity wall, maybe that's a little bit of a question embedded in your question. I never look at that maturity walls like something that's a real sign of imminent danger or issues. I think that if it makes sense and the borrowers are willing to put in a little bit of money, I think almost all lenders are willing to kind of give another six months, 12 months to go down the road. In very few instances, our lenders like really need that capital back and force people out of the portfolio. So that would be a little bit of how we think about it.
Jade Rahmani: Thank you. And on the flip side, from a borrower standpoint, and I know KREF has some large real estate equity holdings, how are borrowers contemplating the outlook now? It seems that there has been a material shift in the interest rate outlook higher for longer versus earlier in the year. Any color you could provide there?
Matt Salem: Sure. What we're seeing and embedded in my comments just like the return to transaction volumes. And of course, when that inflation print hit and we got that rate move and that -- I think there was a little bit of uncertainty in the market around, "Okay, how will this impact real estate equity participants? How they think about acquisitions? How will they think about their ownership of assets?" And what we saw -- and it's early days, but I think what we're seeing today is a materially different outlook than perhaps we saw in the fall where we had, obviously, a backup in rates as well, which is a view that I'm not going to necessarily change how I think about terminal interest rates, terminal cap rates. I may have a little bit higher cost of capital in the interim here. However, my views around growth are more solidified today than they were six months ago. So, people are like leaning into growth a little bit more than they had been and really kind of leaving exit caps around the same from what we can tell. And therefore, this print has been relatively, I think, immaterial to the mindset of institutional real estate investors. Again, early, but that's certainly what we're seeing right now, and there's a lot of big transactions in the market that are pricing, and that's what we're witnessing.
Jade Rahmani: Thanks. And if I could ask a follow-up. Just could you give a range of what your views of the exit cap rates are, touching on property type, you could leave aside office?
Matt Salem: Yes. So, I think multifamily right now, I would say, entry caps are in the -- for Class A, SOFR around 5%. Very high 4%s to low 5%s, I'd say is kind of where those entry cap rates are. I think industrial is very hard to put -- and these are all market dependent. I think industrial is very hard to put a pin on just because what's the embedded gain to lease? How long are the lease terms? What market are you in? What's your box size? I mean there's so much variation there. But I do think that a lot of those assets are trading, call it, high 5%s, low 6%s type of like context. And then people running exit caps either at or slightly inside those levels to adjust for, obviously, rallies in the treasury over the next couple of years.
Jade Rahmani: Thanks. That's helpful.
Operator: [Operator Instructions] The next question is from Don Fandetti from Wells Fargo. Please go ahead.
Don Fandetti: Patrick, the two remaining Philly assets that you said you could possibly announce the sale, is that indicative of more capital coming in for real estate, or is that more you just saying, hey, it makes sense, let's clear the deck?
Patrick Mattson: Hey, Don, Patrick. Yeah, I think it's a couple of things. I think there are signs in certain markets where when real estate gets to a certain value, that there's interest. Those two assets that we were -- and obviously have the ability to hold longer term. One is a well-occupied office and the other is a parking garage. And I think when you talk about that profile deal, even in this market, there's interest. And so, I think as we indicated, we'll see how that transpires over the quarter, but we do think there is some possibility to sell both of those properties.
Don Fandetti: Thanks.
Operator: Thank you. And ladies and gentlemen, this concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Jack Switala for any closing remarks.
Jack Switala: Great. Thanks, operator, and thanks, everyone, for joining today. Please reach out to me or the team here if you have any questions. Take care.
Operator: The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.
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