BlueLinx Holdings Inc. (BXC) has disclosed its financial results for the first quarter of 2024, revealing net sales of $726 million and an adjusted EBITDA of $39 million. Despite a challenging economic environment, the company has maintained a strong financial position with $481 million in cash on hand and is actively pursuing growth through strategic initiatives, including greenfield expansions and potential mergers and acquisitions.
Specialty products continue to be the main revenue driver, contributing 70% to net sales and 80% to gross profit, even as the company navigates headwinds in the housing and building products market.
Key Takeaways
- Net sales stood at $726 million with specialty products making up the bulk of sales and profit.
- Adjusted EBITDA reported at $39 million.
- Structural product sales saw a slight decline, with a 3% decrease in net sales and a 12% decrease in gross profit year-on-year.
- The company has strong liquidity, with $481 million cash on hand.
- Capital expenditure plans for 2024 include $40 million directed towards facility, fleet, and technology improvements.
- A share repurchase program is ongoing, and the company aims to maintain a strong balance sheet.
- BlueLinx expects deflationary pressures on specialty product pricing in the near term but improvement throughout the year.
- Strategic partnerships and expansion into the multifamily sector are part of the company's growth strategy.
- The company anticipates stronger EBITDA margins in the middle of the year, adjusted for duty benefits.
Company Outlook
- BlueLinx plans to grow its core business in engineered wood, siding, industrial products, millwork, and outdoor living.
- Geographic expansion is on the horizon through greenfield initiatives and acquisitions.
- Despite near-term challenges, the company is optimistic about the long-term industry prospects.
Bearish Highlights
- The housing and building products market faces uncertainty due to Federal Reserve rate policies and US housing market volatility.
- Structural products experienced a decrease in sales and gross profit compared to the previous year.
- Negative free cash flow of $37 million was reported in Q1.
Bullish Highlights
- BlueLinx maintains significant liquidity to support its growth strategy.
- The company is investing in facility improvements, fleet upgrades, and technology enhancements.
- Strategic initiatives to grow the business in key markets and expand presence in the multifamily sector are underway.
Misses
- Operating cash flow was negative, with a reported drag of over $30 million in Q1.
- Specialty product pricing is expected to remain deflationary in the near term.
Q&A Highlights
- Volume improvements were seen in April, with mid-single digit growth on a sequential basis.
- The company is managing inventory smartly to match customer needs and protect balance sheets.
- Focus remains on high-margin specialty product categories, complemented by structural business growth.
- BlueLinx is investing in programs with smaller regional builders and exploring M&A opportunities with optimism for potential deals in the coming quarters.
InvestingPro Insights
BlueLinx Holdings Inc. (BXC) has been navigating a complex economic landscape, as reflected in their Q1 2024 financial results. The company's strategic focus on specialty products and growth initiatives is set against a backdrop of market volatility. To provide a deeper understanding of BlueLinx's financial health and market performance, here are some insights powered by InvestingPro:
InvestingPro Data:
- The company's market capitalization stands at $949.93 million, indicating its size and significance in the industry.
- BlueLinx's P/E ratio is currently 19.28, with an adjusted P/E ratio for the last twelve months as of Q4 2023 at 12.71, suggesting a potentially more attractive valuation in a historical context.
- Despite a decrease in revenue growth by -29.52% over the last twelve months as of Q4 2023, the company maintains a solid gross profit margin of 16.8%.
InvestingPro Tips:
1. Management's aggressive share buyback strategy could be a sign of confidence in the company's value and future prospects.
2. Analysts predict that BlueLinx will be profitable this year, which could be a positive signal for investors looking for stable earnings.
For investors seeking more detailed analyses and additional insights, there are 13 InvestingPro Tips available for BlueLinx, which can be accessed through InvestingPro. These tips could provide a more comprehensive view of the company's financial stability, management actions, and market performance.
Remember to use the coupon code PRONEWS24 to get an additional 10% off a yearly or biyearly Pro and Pro+ subscription at InvestingPro for more in-depth information and tips that could help guide investment decisions.
Full transcript - Bluelinx Holdings Inc (NYSE:BXC) Q1 2024:
Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by and welcome to the BlueLinx Holdings' First Quarter 2024 Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode and today's call is being recorded. We will begin with opening remarks and introductions. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to your host, Investor Relations Officer, Tom Morabito. Please go ahead.
Tom Morabito: Thank you operator and welcome to the BlueLinx first quarter 2024 for earnings call. Joining me on today's call are Shyam Reddy, our President and Chief Executive Officer; and Andy Wamser, our Chief Financial Officer. At the end of today's prepared remarks, we will take questions. Our first quarter news release and Form 10-Q were issued yesterday after the close of the market, along with our webcast presentation. These items are available in the Investors section of our website, bluelinxco.com. We encourage you to follow along with the detailed information on those slides during our webcast. Today's discussion contains forward-looking statements. Actual results may differ significantly from those forward-looking statements due to various risks and uncertainties, including the risks described in our most recent SEC filings. Today's presentation includes certain non-GAAP and adjusted financial measures that we believe provide helpful context for investors evaluating our business. Reconciliations to the closest GAAP financial measure can be found in the appendix of our presentation. Now, I'll turn it over to Shyam.
Shyam Reddy: Thanks Tom and good morning everyone. We are pleased with our first quarter 2024 results, especially as we recover from challenging weather conditions in January. I'm extremely proud of my teammates for their continued grid and teamwork and an uncertain housing market and challenging interest rate environment and for their dedication to serving our customers and our suppliers at the highest levels despite the market industry headwinds. I am also excited about aligning my executive leadership structure with our corporate strategy to accelerate our strategic commercial growth initiatives. Mike Wilson, previously our Chief Product Management Officer and 30-year industry veteran with significant sales leadership experience, has been appointed into a newly created Chief Commercial Officer role that is focused on driving profitable sales growth through our regional, local, and national account teams. Before turning to the first quarter results, I want to briefly remind everyone of our corporate growth strategy and our vision to become the most technologically-advanced two-step distributor of building products in the U.S., so that we can become the provider of choice for both our customers and our vendors. We are focused on growing our core business in five key specialty product categories that are sold into multiple layers of a home's construction cycle from start to finish, they are engineered wood, siding, industrial products, millwork, and outdoor living. By making investments in people, value-added services, and working capital to name a few, we are more effectively positioning the company to grow our specialty product business with existing customers and new customers nationally and in strategic markets across the country. These categories which are valued by our customers and tend to be two-step distribution friendly are expected to generate sustainable higher net sales and gross profits over the long-term. We are also committed to allocating capital to M&A and greenfield to expand our geographic reach and to support our specialty product sales growth initiatives. While we continue to evaluate acquisition opportunities and pursue those that meet our valuation expectations, we are moving forward with our greenfield initiative and expect to start our first one by the end of the year. In addition, our growth strategy will continue to be supported by three strategic enablers; operational, business, and digital excellence, all of which are designed to enhance the customer experience. Now, turning to our first quarter results. We generated net sales of $726 million and $39 million in adjusted EBITDA for a 5.3% adjusted EBITDA margin. Adjusted net income was $19 million or $2.14 per share. And as Andy will detail in a moment, adjusted EBITDA and net income were favorably impacted on a net basis by a couple of notable import duty items. But even after removing this favorable impact, we were pleased with our results. Specialty products accounted for approximately 70% of net sales and just over 80% of gross profit for the first quarter. We also delivered solid gross margin performance with specialty products coming in at 20.7% inclusive of the import duty items and structural products at 10.6%. Excluding this favorable impact, our gross margin performance with specialty products came in at 19.4%. Our continued focus on business and operational excellence contributed to these positive results. During the quarter, we experienced deflation in specialty product sales that accounted for the overall sales decline with both categories. Volumes were adversely impacted by the extreme weather patterns experienced in January when nearly half of our locations were closed for between one and five days, during the month due to unusually cold weather and winter storms. Volumes recovered in February and March as business ramped back up with particular strength in our specialty products. Lastly, our financial position remains strong and our significant liquidity leaves us well positioned to execute on our corporate growth strategy as well as maintain the flexibility to opportunistically return capital to shareholders. Now turning to, our perspective on the broader housing and building products market, while industry sources had initially been indicating a renewed sense of optimism for the overall market especially in the second half of the year. Headwinds remain meaning for building products due to the Federal Reserve's current posture regarding rate cuts. In the meantime, the US housing market remains volatile, as reflected by March housing starts sliding to an adjusted annual rate of $1.32 million down 15% from February. Single-family housing starts dropped roughly 12%, while large multi-family starts fell 21%. Permits also fell about 4%. In addition, after four months of sequential improvement, builders confidence in April was 51 and remained flat compared to March. Interest rate cuts also seeing further out, some mortgage rates that are currently over 7%, may remain stubbornly high throughout the year. Although they are lower than the 8% peak last year, they are still well above the 20-year average. And back to the levels last seen in the fall of 2023. More importantly, they haven't stabilized, which is critical to accelerating buy-sell activity for housing. Repair and remodel spending continues to be lower than the elevated levels of 2022 and 2023 when a lot of projects were pulled forward and is expected to decline further in 2024. At the same time existing home sales are at their lowest level in nearly 30 years, which is problematic because a significant amount of repair and remodel activity occurs when family sell their homes and buy new homes. It is important to note, that while single-family housing starts have been showing strong numbers the past few months, that strength has mostly been driven by the large builders that can use their size and scale to buy down mortgage rates offer more attractive deals to consumers and buy direct from manufacturers to support their production schedules. Two-step distributors like BlueLinx, tend to correlate more closely with smaller and custom homebuilders and therefore do not participate as much in the large production builder market. Given the macroeconomic environment we described, we expect this pattern to continue for the remainder of 2024. Although the near-term outlook remains uncertain and muted, we clearly believe in the long-term prospects of the Housing and Building Products sector which underlies our growth strategy. The shortage of homes, supported demographic shifts, aged housing stock, necessary repair remodel activity and high-levels of home equity should continue to benefit the Building Products Industry and BlueLinx. Now, I'll turn it over to Andy, who will provide more details on our financial results and our capital structure.
Andy Wamser: Thanks Shyam, and good morning everyone. Let's first go through the consolidated highlights for the quarter. Overall, we delivered solid first quarter results highlighted by strong margins in both our specialty and structural product categories. Net sales were $726 million down 9% year-over-year. Total gross profit was $128 million and gross margin was 17.6%, up 90 basis points from the prior period. As Shyam mentioned, we experienced a net positive impact of different import duty related items in the quarter. The impact was related to positive changes in the retroactive rates for antidumping and countervailing duties for certain products we imported. This was partially offset by classification adjustments for certain goods imported by the company, as separately entered shipments. These items netted out to a benefit of approximately $7 million for our adjusted EBITDA, while the items are separate and not considered one-time, we do not expect them to be as material in future periods. More details on these items are available in our 10 Q. SG&A was $91 million, consistent with last year's first quarter. Net income was $17 million or $2 per share and adjusted net income was $19 million or $2.14 per share. Tax expense for the first quarter was $5.6 million or 24.1%. For the full year 2024, we anticipate our tax rate to be in the range of 24% to 28%. Adjusted EBITDA was $39 million or 5.3% of net sales, following our normal seasonal patterns and includes the favorable tariff and duty adjustments, not including these adjustment items, adjusted EBITDA would have been $32 million or 4.4% of net sales. As a reminder, we tend to have higher adjusted EBITDA margins in the second and third quarters, but relatively lower margins in the first and fourth quarters of the year. Turning now to first quarter results for specialty products. Net sales were $504 million, down 11% year-over-year. This decline was driven by price deflation across several specialty product categories. Given current market conditions, we expect price deflation in our specialty products to continue with a view that they will moderate on a year-over-year basis as we move through 2024. Gross profit from specialty product sales was $104 million, down 2% year-on-year, specialty gross margin was 20.7%, up 190 basis points from last year primarily due to the duty related items, not including these benefits specialty gross margins were a strong, 19.4% in the first quarter through the first four weeks of Q2, specialty product gross margin was in the range of 18% to 19% with daily sales volumes sequentially higher when compared to the first quarter of 2024 and higher than the equivalent period last year. As a reminder, it's important to note that industry driven price deflation in our specialty products should continue to have an impact on both our top line and cost of goods sold during the year. So far this year we've seen average specialty pricing down roughly 10% compared to the same time last year. And even though margins are stable, gross profit dollars are lower. This dynamic creates a near-term market headwind and we hope to see this improve as the year progresses. Now moving on to structural products. Net sales were $222 million, down 3% compared to the prior year period. This decrease was primarily due to framing lumber volumes when compared to the elevated levels from last year. Gross profit from structural products was $24 million, a decrease of 12% year-on-year. And structural gross margin was 10.6%, down 110 basis points from the same period last year. In the first quarter of 2024, average lumber prices were about $403 per thousand board feet and panel prices were about $615 per thousand square feet, a 2% decrease and a 23% increase respectively compared to the averages in the first quarter of last year. Sequentially comparing the first quarter of 2024 with the fourth quarter of 2023 these prices were both up 5%. Our strong structural margin continues to reflect a tremendous job our team does in managing commodity cost volatility risk by leveraging consignment and utilizing centralized purchasing and pricing to keep inventory levels low through the first four weeks of Q2, structural products gross margin was in the range of 10% to 11% with daily sales volumes consistent with the first quarter of 2024. Looking now at our balance sheet, our liquidity remains excellent due to the strong execution of our strategic initiatives and effective management of working capital. At the end of the quarter cash on hand was $481 million, a decrease of $40 million from year end due to normal seasonal patterns in working capital. When considering our cash on hand and undrawn revolver capacity of approximately $347 million available liquidity was $828 million at the end of the quarter. Total debt excluding our real property financing leases was $348 million and net debt was a negative $133 million. Our net leverage ratio was a negative 0.8 times and we have no material outstanding debt maturities until 2029. Our balance sheet and liquidity remains strong. And when combined with our solid EBITDA generation, we are well-positioned to support our strategic initiatives including our digital transformation efforts. These include investments in our highest return opportunities such as, organic and inorganic growth initiatives and opportunistic share repurchases. Now, moving on to working capital and free cash flow. During the first quarter, we used operating cash flow of $31 million and had free cash flow of negative $37 million. The use of cash was primarily driven by normal seasonal patterns for working capital, which increased during the period. Turning now to capital allocation. During the quarter, we spent approximately $5 million in CapEx, primarily to improve our distribution facilities and our fleet. We also entered into finance leases for $8 million for fleet upgrades as well. For 2024, we expect capital investments to be approximately $40 million, focusing on facility improvements, further upgrades to our fleet and the technology improvements previously discussed. Our digital transformation will also have at least a $5 million impact on operating expenses this year, related to software licenses as well as increased headcount associated with this initiative. During the first quarter, we did not purchase any shares under our repurchase program, but we remain committed to our share repurchase efforts by continuing to be opportunistic in the market. Our guiding principles for capital allocation remain consistent. We intend to maintain a strong balance sheet, which enables us to invest in our business through economic cycles, pursue a disciplined M&A strategy and expand our geographic footprint as well as return capital to shareholders. We also plan to maintain a long-term target net leverage of two times or less. Overall, we're pleased with our first quarter results, highlighted by our strong margins especially in light of January's challenging weather conditions, and uncertain housing environment and the market deflation on specialty products. Our strong balance sheet and liquidity, positions us well to execute on our strategy and provide returns for our shareholders. Operator, we are now ready to take questions.
Operator: Thank you. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] And your first question comes from the line of Jeffrey Stevenson with Loop Capital. Please go ahead.
Q – Jeffrey Stevenson: Hi. Thanks for taking my questions and congrats on the nice quarter.
Shyam Reddy: Thanks Jeff.
Q – Jeffrey Stevenson: I was hoping you could provide us some more color on the cadence of specialty volume growth, as we move through the first quarter because previously reported that average daily sales volumes were down 10% in January, due to adverse weather. I wondered, if you experience any meaningful improvement throughout the quarter and into April where you indicated volumes are up sequentially?
Andy Wamser: Yes, a great question. So as Shyam mentioned in his comments, we did see an improvement in February and March, with some of the specialty volumes. As we ended the quarter, we are able to fully offset, I would say that those January performance. And so it was up modestly, I would say from a volume perspective so that would be low single digits. As we look into April, the first sort of four weeks of the month. I would say that volumes were up I'd say, mid-single digit in specialty, but it looks softer certainly in structural. So that was generally the trends that we saw as it relates to specialty.
Shyam Reddy: Great yet or at the same time despite the volume, with respect to volumes going up we're also managing or should -- we continue to show our commitment to managing market margins effectively with our pricing excellence teams and data-driven approach to managing our business locally and nationally.
Q – Jeffrey Stevenson: Got it. Got it. Yes. I wanted to ask Max about your 2024, specialty products pricing outlook, previously you indicated some meaningful deflationary pressures primarily in EWP and mill work, but do you expect segment pricing to moderate as the year progressed? Has there been any changes in your specialty pricing outlook or have things gone largely as you anticipated?
Shyam Reddy: Yes. Look, as long as the demand curve continues to be a little suppressed. We expect the deflationary environment to continue, so far it's remained stable relatively recently but the optimistic outlook we had heading into the year is a little bit more muted just in light of the Fed's posture. But over time, as the demand curve gets better, we feel like pricing will improve. But right now we're seeing meaningful deflation or we've seen consistent deflation and no work and EWP being the lion's share of it with deflation in all categories other than panels. Volumes are up though in all categories other than the lumber, which was which was mainly in a meaningful way down. And that's primarily due to I think weather – the weather events we experienced early in the quarter.
Shyam Reddy: And Jeff maybe just one thing to add. When we talk about the specialty pricing deflation with its – again on a on a year-over-year basis, as we talk about it moderating throughout the year, we're talking about it moderating from a year-over-year perspective. So as we get to Q4, that's our general expectation in terms of where we should lap this deflation if current pricing holds, which it has been for the last I'd say several months.
Jeffrey Stevenson: Understood. Thanks, Andy. And then lastly just obviously, your financial position is very attractive right now. And you mentioned you're likely going to move forward with the greenfield by the end of the year. Can you provide any more details or previously you talked about western markets as were white base was and should we expect something in that region?
Andy Wamser: Yes, I would say that's a good way to think about it. I mean we've got a lot of wide space out there and there are a number of markets we've identified from a perspective of housing starts and permits and good demographic trends in the future that would justify or provide a great location for us to launch a greenfield. We're in the process of identifying real property opportunities, whether they be existing sites or opportunities to develop land, preferably with existing sites so we can hit the ground running them before. So the idea would be to commence something or start something later in the year to get that done right and then accelerate our greenfield development as we continue to fine-tune our greenfield machine. But very excited about the opportunities ahead of us with respect to those markets.
Jeffrey Stevenson: Great. Thank you.
Andy Wamser: Thanks, Jeff.
Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Greg Palm of Craig-Hallum Capital Group. Please go ahead.
Greg Palm: On one of the previous questions around price, helpful commentary on the year-over-year, in terms of sequentially are you saying that pricing has bottomed? Is it expected to be at these levels as is expected to improve sequentially? Can you just give us a little bit more color.
Andy Wamser: Yes. I mean we would expect especially inflation sort of hold where it is in Q1. So when we think about it then sequentially, we saw price deflation throughout 2023. So that continued to decrease as we move throughout the year. The year-over-year with them will become less as we get to Q2, Q3 and then that should lap that in Q4.
Greg Palm: So a headwind on a year-over-year basis but maybe sequentially as we go throughout the year, it maybe improves a little bit versus what you saw in Q1?
Andy Wamser: I don't think is going to sequentially improve. And I'm saying it is that our expectation right now is that it stays the same sequentially. But when we think about it year-over-year it will sequentially improve.
Shyam Reddy: That's right.
Greg Palm: Understood.
Shyam Reddy: To get closer together. But yes, generally speaking, we feel like it has moderated. But again if demand increases at some point, when rates start when we see this period of uncertainty dissipate and we're actually getting into more normalized times that we would expect the pricing to change just based on the demand. But right now we feel like it has moderated.
Greg Palm: Okay. That makes sense. And I don't know if I missed it but did you say that you expect additional gains or positive impacts from some of those import duty related items that that hit in Q1? And has anything built into that that margin guidance that you provided on a quarter-to-date basis or is that excluding that?
Andy Wamser: To be frankly, we don't have a lot of visibility in terms of when we would get – I'd say potential refunds from the antidumping countervailing duties. There's an expectation that it could be maybe a couple million dollars but again, I don't know when the timing of that could be and that is not in our guidance. So, they may happen by this year. But actually maybe a question to Nick [ph], so unclear at this point.
Greg Palm: All right.
Shyam Reddy: And this could be offset is not aware of. I mean it just is not something we really think about.
Greg Palm: Sure. Okay. And then, as it relates to working capital usage in Q1 kind of normal seasonality. Just remind us does that reverse completely in Q2? Does it take a couple of quarters for that to reverse?
Andy Wamser: Yes. So, there is a little more than a $30 million sort of dragging Q1. We would expect maybe a little bit in Q2 and then it starting to reverse in Q3 and as we get to then year end. So, it's generally in line with sort of seasonal patterns for the first quarter, moderately second, and then we'll get some improvement certainly in Q3, and then last year -- sorry, the fourth quarter at the end of the year.
Greg Palm: All right. Okay. That is it for me. Thanks.
Shyam Reddy: Thanks, Greg.
Andy Wamser: Thanks, Greg.
Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Kurt Yinger of D.A. Davidson. Please go ahead.
Kurt Yinger: Great. Thanks and good morning, everyone. Just a point of clarification on the volume commentary in specialty, will you reference kind of mid-single digit improvement in April? Was that a sequential number or on a year-over-year basis
Andy Wamser: So, that's talking on a sequential basis.
Kurt Yinger: Okay. Got you. And I guess it sounded like, February and March, might have been up on a on a year-over-year basis but kind of offsetting that January pressure? Yes, or I might be mistaken that?
Andy Wamser: Yes. No, it would they were up. It was up year-over-year in February and March.
Kurt Yinger: Got you. Okay. I mean is it fair to say that with that kind of sequential improvement, you've seen that year-over-year improvement continue as well or maybe that's pulled back a little bit depending on seasonality and maybe a little bit of catch-up for January.
Andy Wamser: I would say, we've been pleased with some of the volume numbers, I'd say from February March and into the first four weeks. And I'd sort of give some indication in terms of what we've seen the improvement for April. Although, I would say the one thing though that is the headwind is the specialty deflation that we've talked about over and over. So we think about from a gross profit basis, there's headwinds there. But yes, we're pleased with some of the volumes. I mean that being said, to caveat that, it's certainly the markets is uncertain in terms of how we think about expectations for rates and what that means for starts. But long-term, we're clearly optimistic in terms of what the market will hold or over the longer term.
Shyam Reddy: Yes. And then as it relates to what we are presented with in-market, we've launched a number of strategic initiatives to grow the business in key markets along those five key specialty product categories, while also leveraging our relationships with the national account side to grow that business as well very strategically. And then as I touched on in previous calls, there is a portion of starts where we don't have that much of a presence and that's multifamily. And we have now some dedicated resources to growing that business out in the regions and in the local markets where the opportunities are great. And we've got some great vendor partnerships that are enabling us to do that as well. So it's -- we're basically taking the bull by the horns despite the market headwinds but they are real for sure.
Kurt Yinger: Great. Yes, okay. That all makes sense. In the last six months, you guys have announced kind of some expanded partnerships with LP Huber. Curious, if you've gotten that product in place in those additional locations and have started to kind of ramp sales at expected run rate at this stage or whether that's something that could still kind of prove instrumental over the next couple of quarters?
Andy Wamser: Yes. So we continue to expand our relationships with them and the sales -- once we bring in stocking positions in those locations the sales start to flow through the P&L. But we have a lot more room for opportunity in additional markets that will come online that are in discussions. As you can imagine market expansion with any of our key vendors is done pursuant to a schedule and it takes time over the course of the year. But so far, we are very pleased with the markets we've opened up with, whether it’d be our siding partner like Allura or LP with respect to other type of siding. And then of course you mentioned Uber (NYSE:UBER) as well, but we have a number of relationships where we are expending product lines that are giving our teams in the field some readiness and create excitement in what's otherwise a challenging market. And also as it relates to your kind of your normal customer base, there are opportunities where we like we're expanding in markets with respect to multi-family and our home centers where we might not otherwise be selling a specific product. So that's also another opportunity for growth and product expansion. So it's both geographic and channel.
Kurt Yinger: Okay. Okay. That's good to hear. And Andy you had touched on kind of seasonally stronger EBITDA margin profile in the middle part of the year. I guess if we were to think about Q2 and that being the case would we account for kind of that duty benefit and maybe strip that out? Or do you feel like that's a comment that could be taken through the kind of the number that you reported here in Q1?
Andy Wamser: Yes, I mean, you would have to strip out the impact or the positive net impact from the duties. So from a reported, I would say, a 5.3% was with the duties was 4.4% without. So I think there will be a marginal improvement from the 4.4%. So that's what I'd be using.
Kurt Yinger: Right. Okay. Makes total sense. And then last one just on greenfields. Can you maybe talk a little bit about kind of the key considerations when you're evaluating some of these different locations and markets where you don't already have a presence? And we talk about the West, is it markets that you completely don't serve today or should we think about that as more an expansion of where Vandermeer might already have some presence, but is serving customers from a long distance or something like that?
Shyam Reddy: Yes. So let me first start by saying that we serve all 50 states, and in those areas where we have warehouses or distribution operations and can deliver out a warehouse that in a cost effective manner. We clearly serve those states within the periphery of the locations. In other states where we don't have a close enough presence to make the economics work, we have both. We have direct sales and we sell out of reloads. So we are able to service all 50 states with some being at a higher margin level, obviously, because of the presence we have there. As it relates to the market, some of the key considerations we look at are obviously starts and permits and demographic trends that suggest and the ability to participate in the growth cycle when the housing market picks back up, and connects with rates coming down. And so that will then drive the investment thesis for the operation being located there. The other thing we look at is we have a very strong private label set of brands with respect to EWP and Millwork. For example, we also have a well-oiled machine around structural products, commodity panels and commodity lever that we believe it gives us the ability to greenfield an operation very quickly between both private label and the structural side of the business. So once you find the warehouse and enough outdoor storage and then we can we have the balance sheet to invest in fleet, which basically means we're able to reduce our cost to serve by going with our own fleet operations as opposed to third-party freight then that also reduces the payback period increases the returns. And then, of course, it's the people right taking advantage of our expertise our centers of operational excellence. Obviously, the ERP platform we have in place and the digital excellence initiatives as well as our inventory manage, our procurement and pricing and then partnering with key vendors. In fact, I've had conversations with vendors that have made it very clear they want to partner with us in a collaborative way to grow those markets, and they view it as a mutual investment. So the opportunities are great. It's just a matter of us finding those. And again, we have a list of markets. It's just a matter of making sure that all those boxes are checked as it relates to the site and the our ability to get into a site and then move forward with the operations and of course, hiring the general manager and the other talent that goes along with it Got it.
Kurt Yinger: And just one quick follow-up on that. I mean would you consider opening up a greenfield and leading West now some of those private label products like EWP and structural with an eye towards eventually having a more complete pipe yesterday vendor list and pipeline of or would you feel like you need to have that established at the outset?
Shyam Reddy: You know that? Well, first of all, we can we can absolutely lead with our private label in structural product lines for sure. And that's what gives us I think the ability to -- to move forward with greenfields maybe more so than others I and two-step distribution because we've already got our own product mix that we have complete control over. At the same time however, like yes we have had conversations with vendors that provide other lines of specialty products that have expressed a very strong interest in helping us grow those markets. And then of course even in those markets where vendors might have to have a presence or have partnerships in place like I said with respect to the relationships with home centers and in the multifamily area where we're growing there are opportunities for us to sell product lines in those in those areas irrespective of what may already exist in those markets. So there are a number of different ways for us to go to market in any greenfield look in any given greenfield locations. But what what's great though is the fact that we can hit the ground running immediately with our existing product lines and then leverage our vendor relationships to grow into new was fairly quickly. The proof will be in the pudding right we have to start it after we start I can give you more clarity on and what that glide path looks like.
Kurt Yinger: Got it. Makes sense. Appreciate all the guys and good luck to your Q2. Thank you.
Shyam Reddy: Thanks, Kurt.
Operator: Your last question come from the line of Reuben Garner from Benchmark. Please go ahead.
Reuben Garner: Thank you. Good morning, everyone.
Andy Wamser: Good morning, Reuben.
Shyam Reddy: Hey, Reuben.
Reuben Garner: Maybe we'll see -- we'll start inventory in the channel. Have you noticed any changes in customer behavior in recent weeks whether it's on the specialty or the structural side and how much inventory and they're carrying. And I guess the interesting question is, is it possible that in this rising rate environment there's even more of a reliance on SAN? You guys and what you bring as are as you seeing customers maybe get defensive?
Shyam Reddy: Yes. So I would I would say from my conversations with recently with our folks in the field, we're sort of seeing our customers expressing steady-state business. So nothing -- nothing out of the ordinary. Everything we're seeing. It kind of fits with our seasonal buys and the increase in volumes that you would typically see heading into the summer season and the late spring summer season. And of course, the sequential improvement Q1 over Q4 due to inventory builds et cetera. So we feel like what we would expect is actually flowing through the P&L as it relates to on the second part of your question I absolutely believe in the value of two-step distribution in the building products value chain and your point and you know again supports that value proposition as it relates to just-in-time data working capital management all of which is more valuable during times of uncertainty and our business our value proposition supports that on the part of our customers. So we're being very smart with our buys and at the same time matching those up with our customer needs and being able to give them their fill-in business there just in time they may have to the extent they were ordering and may have ordered more before and they'd rather just order less from us and pay a little bit more to do that in order to protect their own balance sheets and manage our working capital more effectively. That's where that's where we can come in and help in addition to the value add services as well. So I know that I feel good about that carrying through the remainder of the year for sure.
Reuben Garner: Got it. And then on the Specialty gross margin front even if I strip out the $7 million you're still another quarter above kind of 19% level. And I know you said you started off the next quarter and the 18% to 19% range. Is there any reason I mean the last four quarters and you've kind of been in the 19% to 20% range. Is there any reason why that would change in this environment over the course of the rest of the year? Or is there mix dynamics that that could change and work against you or for you just help us with that kind of run rate?
Andy Wamser: Yes. I mean so, we've been pleased with our specialty margins you know but I would say over the last year I mean it's consistently it has been in and around that sort of 19%. At some point, there can be a shift in some of our mix and that can change. But as we tried to give a forward look in terms of what we see for the month leading up to our call and it's always been pretty consistent. We're not trying to sandbag in terms of being 18% to 19%. And then we hit 19% for. It's just sometimes the mix changes throughout the quarter and it gets a little bit higher. So nothing I think different from where we were before. The reset for the 1st month it is still around that 18% to 19%. So I'd expect that going forward.
Reuben Garner: And does the mix change based on the end market, meaning I -- from all accounts new construction still seems to be outperforming R&R or new construction products like and no work and EWP. Are those higher that just remind me I guess I believe those are higher margin categories for you there and say okay?
Shyam Reddy: Yes, so the five key specialty product categories are higher margin and that's why we're focused on that and using our structural business to really complement the overall growth strategy. Clearly you can see from our structural margins, we were very intentional about how we manage that side of the business. And then of course with our customers, leveraging that to continue to move our mix to a higher specialty, higher specialty accounts. As it relates to each product, yes, we have the EWP that's on the early part of the cycle that you have the outdoor living products on the end, industrial tends to support, let's say cabinetry and things that you would see later in the building cycle, but also that that business is down in large parts. Repair remodel is down. As it relates to -- the one thing as there could be opportunities where there's more direct business. It's good business for the Company, but has a lower cost to serve. The margins are lower, but it's good business and there is -- there are some specialty products that we sell via direct. But overall, what Andy said is the case and we have a very intentional strategy to sell into various layers, multiple layers of the home construction cycle with products that are two-step distribution friendly that our customers value.
Reuben Garner: I'm sorry I was on mute. I'm going to sneak one more in if I could. You mentioned the big builders in this environment having the advantage in it being able to buy down rates? Can you just talk to us about your mix of business between the big and small builders and what if anything you can do to trying to capture more of the big builders? And mind share if this is an environment that's going to be kind of here for a while.
Shyam Reddy: Yes. So the production builders have an advantage over the smaller and medium-sized builders or custom homebuilders who are kind of the larger customer base of our customers, right through the larger portion of the end users. The big builders, obviously have very strong balance sheet. They do large track bills. They buy down rates, give other and concessions whether it's you know upgrades on finishes and things like that to incentivize homebuyers to buy the smaller and regional builders that are the custom homebuilders, they can't do that. And so as I as I think about our customer base and the builders by the way, the big builders can go direct, right. They've got big production schedules where they can buy direct from the manufacturer or alternatively they've got programs of the manufacture that are direct with the one steppers who can also potentially go direct depending on their size and scale. So in that in that context, our ability to participate is limited. On the other hand we do view the big builder as a core part of our strategy and we are investing in and we do have some programs in various parts of the country where we've partnered with some smaller regional build builders, who might build 50 or 100, 500 homes and have developed build or pull through programs with them in partnership with our customers. So, we'll never break channel, but to the extent we can we can partner with big builders to generate business for our customers. That's an opportunity we want to explore and get further into. And we're in the process of hiring somebody who will be dedicated to those efforts in terms of strategy, planning, execution, et cetera in partnership with our regional and local market leaders, where it makes sense. And if you look at a lot of our markets a lot of these big markets big builders are have a strong presence. So, we are going to be intentional about it is being in that space more strategically going forward.
Reuben Garner: Great. Thanks and good luck on the quarter.
Shyam Reddy: Thanks, Reuben.
Operator: We have another question from Kurt Yinger of D.A. Davidson. Please go ahead.
Kurt Yinger: Great. Thanks for letting me squeeze one more. And since it hasn't been touched on yet, I did want to talk about capital allocation. I don't think a Greenfield would be a significant capital outlay, but are you guys seeing the M&A opportunities out there that lead you optimistic that a deal of some size might materialize over the next couple of quarters and you kind of balance that with the current balance sheet and potential to be more active with the share repurchase program going forward?
Andy Wamser: Yeah. So, as you know in the first four months of the year. I met with a number of potential targets. We're continuing to strengthen those relationships and make sure we have a seat at the table or were the only ones at the table we had an opportunity to unlock, unlock that sale arises. We're still at the end of the day we're focused on making sure we -- we buy companies at great valuations that makes sense for the Company. And that means deal work takes time. So there are opportunities and we're continuing to work them and it just comes down to a better meeting of the minds. But I will tell you that, the case for meeting of the minds today or in 2024 is much higher than the opportunities are much higher from an odd standpoint than they were last year, and even the year before just given the experience of building products during the pandemic.
Kurt Yinger: Okay. Thanks very much.
Operator: That concludes our Q&A session. I will now turn the conference back over Tom Morabito for closing remarks.
Tom Morabito: Thanks, Pam. Thank you again for joining us today, and we look forward to speaking with you in August, as we share our second quarter 2024 results.
Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's call. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect.
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